Interview: Martika Ramirez Escobar on making Leonor Will Never Die
I recently had the pleasure of hopping on Zoom to chat with writer/director Martika Ramirez Escobar about her feature directorial debut, Leonor Will Never Die.
The meta action comedy follows senior woman Leonor (Sheila Francisco), a retired screenwriter who used to be a huge name in action movies. One day, she comes across an unfinished script and starts working on it again. After she is hit on the head by a TV, she is knocked unconscious and transported to the world of her film, where she becomes the hero of her own story.
In the interview, I spoke to Escobar about finding her Leonor, the challenges of shooting action on a budget and the film’s mind-blowingly meta ending. Caution: Some spoilers ahead. Enjoy!
Going right back to the very beginning, what was the initial idea that started it all?
It’s a film that started with many ideas – as much as there are many layers in the film or films within a film within a film. One part is an existential crisis about what to make as a first film. So I started writing this in 2015, I was fresh out of film school, I just knew I wanted to make a film (but) I didn’t know how. Aside from the existential crisis, I think part of it is also about my observation on how the Filipinos are fascinated with the action film genre. So, growing up, our president was a former action star, I attended a workshop in the Philippines that’s run by action film workers and in our latest elections, last year, there are still many celebrities and action stars in position. So I think there’s something about how we see ourselves as characters that need to be saved by a hero and at the same time it’s also myself seeing life as one big long film that we continue to write and revise as we live it.
So it’s a mix of these ideas and also the experience of just gathering people in a dark cinema to focus on one thing that’s projected. I remember growing up and watching a lot of action film replays at home on my television so in the Philippines it’s a very common scenario to have your neighbours, your family members gather around the television that’s playing something they find interesting and while making Leonor I wanted the audience to feel that way or have that experience.
You said you started writing this in 2015. When did you actually film it?
We shot the film in 2019 for 17 official days. Some scenes I just shot randomly at home. I would say it would be 20 if we added all the productions together.
When you appear in the film at the end, you say you feel like you’ll never stop working on it because it keeps changing – was that true?
It’s still true today. Every time we screen the film at any festival or in any city or on any type of screen, depending on the time of the day, it’s always a different screening. So the way people respond to the film varies so much that it validates my idea that the film is still growing, the film is still changing and it will never stop as long as people want to watch it in any form of a screen – can be at the cinema, can be on their phones, can be on their televisions. So I guess I would say it was a living and breathing thing and it’s already one and a half years old. I think it’s time to let it live on its own.
Did you have lots of different options for the ending? What made you go for the version where we see behind-the-scenes of you shooting it, you talking about the process and then the musical number?
We tried a lot. We first did what was on the script, which is just the musical ending without all the meta behind-the-scenes footage. But then when people saw it, we’d often get the comment that the film felt flat or it felt rushed in the ending or just didn’t land and that’s a crucial thing to hear and it means your film did not work. So upon hearing that, my producer told me what if we try certain things. We got into an editing lab so it was there when our mentors gave us ideas to explore. So after that lab, we had an additional shoot day, we applied a lot of the conversations during the lab and eventually came up with a cut that was the version that premiered a year later. So it was a slow and gruelling process but I also think the film needed it. It’s not like you can make a living thing grow instantly. It was as slow as how it was developed and it felt like it was the right pace. It was a film that you can’t rush. Even if we had all the money, I don’t think it can be rushed.
Were you happy to play yourself at the end of the film?
No (laughs), I appeared out of necessity. In the script, it says, ‘A director and an editor’. It was supposed to be an actor playing a director and an actor playing an editor but we didn’t have a lot of funds and resources so the easiest way to make it happen is to actually have us appear in the film. So that’s my actual editor Lawrence (Ang) because we didn’t have the budget. That was in the script so I already had an inkling that somehow I wanted to see a break from both the action world and the real world, just so we can realise that what you think is happening is not actually the world that exists; there’s another world.
I saw on your IMDb that you were the director of photography and editor on other films. Did you ever consider doing those things on this as well as writing and directing?
Did I consider it? Yes, to save money and to make decisions faster. But I also knew that for such an ambitious project, it was impossible for me to do all these things. There’s also a magic and discoveries that I have when I work with other people so it’s not so private and personal. I also like how the film’s not in your control because it allows the work to grow free. I realised that idea: Letting something grow, considering your staff as your co-parents or just letting go of what you think is the right way of making a film. I realised how much filmmaking is a collaborative process because I used to be so rigid and stiff. ‘This is the shot, this is the storyboard, this should happen’, like, no. It also became a process of learning, for me, making this film.
I love the action scenes. I loved how they were old-school, ’70s/’80s, grainy and deliberately cheesy. Were they challenging to shoot on your budget? Because there are a lot of action sequences for an independent film.
Yeah, very challenging to shoot. Challenging because shooting action scenes is a whole new world, a whole new language. It’s the stunt director who blocks the cameras, it’s him who blocks the geography of where the characters are. I did not know this, I underestimated the gravity of actually making a stunt and action scene so it was fun but also difficult, especially because of the fact we had very few resources. So the goons we had, we just repeated them (throughout) the whole film. It would be nice to have more, especially when one dies in scene, ideally, we have more goons in a different scene but in Leonor, they die and they appear again. All of the extras in the background, especially in the bar, they’re our friends, our family members. Every time before a shoot I would post on Facebook like, ‘We have a big scene tomorrow, whoever is free and wants a free bottle of beer, text us.’ Then they’ll show up. So I relied heavily on friends.
When you look back at the shoot, or when you look at the finished film now, what scene are you most proud of?
It’s the last shot of the musical number, the shot right before the credits, the one with the crane. It’s because we see the entire production staff dancing so I feel proud to see people behind the camera doing something in front of the camera. We’re not dancers but we did train that morning with an actual dance choreographer and it was quite special to dance with your crew, literally. I mean, this whole film was about us dancing through struggles and just creating this film but the actual literal dancing is the culmination of it all.
And it’s just a happy way to end the film. I love it, just seeing everyone when she’s raised up.
It’s also more special because that morning it was raining really hard. It felt like it was impossible for us to shoot that sequence. All the places we were supposed to dance had puddles and mud but we still danced with the rain. In the scene, you see Leonor with an umbrella, it was because it was raining so hard. All of us were in hoods and jackets and it just made the film more special and reflective of how it was like on set. It was full of storms but we just battled through it.
How did you find Sheila for the role of Leonor?
Sheila was one of the last people we met for the role of Leonor. My producers saw her in a theatre play and they told me to watch the play so I saw her and (was like), ‘Oh, wow.’ She has such a strong presence, on stage and in person. So when I met her, I asked her to read a few pages of the script and when Sheila read it, she felt like a real person. It’s more of her vibe and persona that made me want her for Leonor. Aside from being a presence, it’s like she shares the same crisis as me and as Leonor. She’s very sweet, she’s a strong, independent woman, she represents a lot of qualities I see in Leonor and she’s just talented. I mean, above all that, she’s a good senior actress, very professional (and) a great person off-set, which is important to me.
You must be so proud of how the film has done – getting into Sundance, getting a jury award, being nominated for an Independent Spirit Award. Have you been able to take it all in?
No (laughs), because we’re back to zero with begging again for the next film. I mean, it would be different if I felt more secure. You know, I’m making another film and I think filmmakers just want to keep making films but it’s always very difficult because it’s highly dependent on money. We did not make a lot from Leonor, we travelled a lot, but it did not reflect in the numbers and so we’re back in the struggle. I’m happy and very grateful that our film actually did a lot more than what we expected. We did not expect any of this, even to be distributed in the U.K. is something that sounded impossible. So we’re so happy and so grateful because somehow our film resonated with people and there are people who want to support and make us believe in it so that’s something that just warms our hearts so much.
Speaking of next projects, what are you working on now?
So I’m here in the writing lab for another film within a film within a film. It’s three different stories intercut that should feel like one and it’s still magical and strange and complex. I estimate that this film will be made in the next three years. Leonor was eight so I want to make it much faster now. So hopefully we’ll be able to find the right partners to make it happen.
Leonor Will Never Die will be released in cinemas on Friday 7th April
This interview was edited for length and clarity.